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Chris HearnChris HearnJan 23, 2017

On Nazi Punching...

Did you see the video of white nationalist/alt-right/nazi/[fill in your favourite description here] Richard Spencer (who says he isn't a Nazi) being punched by someone who appears to associate himself with the Black Bloc given the way he is dressed, but who knows. Could have been coincidence. Could have been associated with another group. Could have been just a guy who happens to enjoy the non-colour black. Should I speculate? I probably will at some point here.

SEE IT HERE FOLKS!

I've seen no shortage of people celebrating the fact that out of nowhere, a guy with admittedly abhorent views was attacked and punched out of the blue by some dude. And, here is where I have a problem.

What kind of society are we aiming for here? One where people go around randomly punching people with horrible views? If the answer is yes then you better be prepared to be punched, because guaranteed someone is not going to like your views or even see them as dangerous or abhorrent no matter how righteous and wonderful you may think they are. And, if this is the way society is now working, how long before someone like Spencer starts arming himself to protect himself against random punches? How long before we have fights in the streets and bullets flying? Slippery slope? No, more like being realistic. More like stepping back and looking at the situation with critical thinking.

I don't, or a second, believe any gains were made by a random punch to a guy who is with no doubt an asshole. Now, with that said, I have had a love/hate relationship with Antifa, one of the protesting groups in Washington DC during the inauguration. When they go toe to toe with actual neo nazi groups marching through the streets of a European city who are out absolutely looking for fights and violence, ya, I can't help but be on their side and see justification there. For a few years I went to a May Day concert put on by Antifa in Prague and it was great. There were a lot of cool people. It was fun. There were some great ideas...and there were also some ideas that, no, I just can't get behind, and in fact, worry about. I'm not an anarchist and I see anarchy as a very disturbing political idea. I ain't about to support it. I see anarchy as a dangerous idea that will pretty much eliminate everything in our Western liberal societies that I believe in. To me, it's libertarianism on acid and it scares the crap out of me. So, am I now justified in going around punching anarchists in the face? The answer is NO, I'm not. I don't have the right. In the US, where all of this is focused, that anarchist is still protected by the constitution. If I punch him, I'm not protected and am breaking the law.

Besides, I believe that the anarchist has ideas that can be refuted. The anarchist view is marganlized...and for good reason. The vast majority of people do not want to live in a society where anarchy reigns anymore than the vast majority of people do not want to live in a society run by National Socialism. Spencer's ideas are patently ridiculous and easily refuted. The estimated 2 million people on the streets across the planet yesterday during the Women's March protest showed that right there. Spencer got a few hundred people together for a Trump celebration before he was elected. That's a mere drop in the bucket. An extremely marginalised viewpoint that very few actually adhere to.

So, the question is, does a person need to randomly cold cock a dude that most people think is a complete idiot anyway, especially when there is not really much to gain...but a lot to lose, like credibility, the higher ground, the presendence that it sets, what it opens others up to, etc? It might feel damn good to watch a dude like Spencer be randomly punched, but is that enough? I don't think so.

In addition, this is what I don't get. I'm a liberal. On the left. Socialist leanings. Understand the value of controlled capitalism. Etc. And, I lived in two Muslim majority countries. In Islam I saw a terribly problematic idea, especially in political Islam and conservative interpretations. There are a whole ton of ideas in the Middle East that match Nazi ideas almost to the letter. And this conservative ideaology isn't confined to the Middle East. It is being spread through Saudi funded mosques and extremist speakers like Zakir Naik who holds near rock star status in the Muslim world and is broadcast into homes all over the world through his "Peace" TV station and the internet. Dangerous and concerning stuff that goes head to head with what National Socialists, white supremacists, the worst of the worst mysoginists and extreme homophobes. And yet, AND YET, the left has absolutely blinded itself to this.

The reason I bring this up? Two reasons: Salman Rushdie and Charlie Hebdo. Oh man, these two cases are part of what made me absolutely scratch my head and scream "WTF!"

Let's take Salman Rushdie, a man who wrote a book that was deemed blasphemous. Millions of Muslims (no, not exaggerating) wanted this man dead after a fatwa was issued by Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran. There was a bounty out on his head, there were deadly and destructive protests throughout the Muslim world, thousands upon thousands took the streets of London calling for his death, burning effigies and his book. Rushdie had to go into hiding under protection for a decade. People associated with the production of the book were killed. Bookstores refused to carry it because of the security risk. And, what did a scary number of people on the Left do? Accused him of provoking people and saying he shouldn't have written the book. WTF? This would be some of the very people who would say "We must punch Nazis!" Now, of course, this isn't representative of everyone on the Left, but it was a major problem and still is.

Same thing with Charlie Hebdo who printed cartoons of the prophet Mohammad. For their efforts, their offices were attacked and 12 people were killed. Over a cartoon. And what did so many people on the left say? They accused the magazine of provocation.

Frick, online I still see people arguing that when people criticize Islam, or defending the Charlie Hebdo, they are provoking and should expect violence. WTF? I question how many would say this and also argue that out and out pounding on a guy out of the blue who has said horrible things is a good idea. They will defend the bad ideas held by people who are upset about cartoons mocking a figure at the center of the world's second largest religion that was a war lord, caravan raider, homophobe, dictator and slave owner...but also want to see people like Spencer punched randomly?

It baffles me.

I've also heard that this stuff is why more terrorists are created. By drawing a pic of Mohammad is offensive to Muslims so of course some of them are going to turn to violence. Wait...what? Seriously? Think about what is being said there and apply it to the Spencer situation. If drawing a pic gets people with abhorent ideas violent, what do you think cold cocking a dude with abhorent ideas is going to do? Do you think it will turn him and his followers into pacifists? Under this logic, if white nationalists feel that they are going to get their lights punched out for their beliefs isn't it going to create more white nationalists and more violence? No, apparently, in that case, the absolute opposite happens. At which point you can't help but slam your head against a wall.

Now, we come around to the idea of free speech. Saying one is cool with genocide is vastly different than actually committing genocide. One has the right in the US to say they are cool with genocide. They also have the right to be dead wrong. They also have the right to be laughed at and called out for their terrible ideas. Others have the right to write volumes about how wrong they are and counter the idea. People have the right to peacefully protest his ideas. What right do people NOT have? To go around punching other people. And there is a reason for that...a damn good one. It is against the law. Having horrible beliefs and ideas isn't. And, as hard as it is to accept, it is the truth. And that really is the way it should be. If we justify beating on people randomly for beliefs, then, ya, we have a situation where that becomes the norm.

When there was more of a problem with bombings at abortion clinics, people were outraged and rightly so. You can't go around bombing abortion clinics! You just can't. But, what was the justification? Those who did it and supported it argued that it was for the greater good and that in the end it would SAVE millions of lives by ending abortion or sending a message that it was unacceptable. And, really, if you stop to think about it, there is logic in that. But, it is still wrong to do! Absolutely wrong to do no matter how righteous the one doing the bombing THINKS they are! See the connection? One might think they are being righteous and punching people randomly is justified because of that. But, other people can do the exact same thing and argue their actions are justified because their beliefs are righteous. Heck, that is why we end up with much of the wars and conflicts we have. If we want to bring National Socialism into this, then Hitler was perfect at this. He was able to justify his actions and paint them as being completely righteous and for the greater good. Sounds familiar?

There is an argument that yes, we want a society free from this kind of violence, and in order to do that we must punch nazis in the face first. Getting rid of these people and their ideas will mean that we can then go back to living a peaceful, wonderful life. Well, guess what. People have had absolutely horrible ideas for, well, since forever, and nothing has actually stopped it and nothing actually will and no, there won't be and never will be a post-bad idea time and people will have to be punching people forever...and ever. And even if every white nationalist in the world disappeared there are all kinds of other horrible people and ideas that exist. So, it won't end. It will never end. And at SOME point people are going to have to say "Hmmmm....this randomly punching people isn't exactly working out as planned.

So, I invite those who are celebrating the punching of Richard Spencer to step back for a minute and to really think about it. I'm sure many will say "Nah! LET'S PUNCH NAZIS!" but at least hopefully before they do they will think of at least one point I made. Please.

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What do you think? Reply to Chris Hearn.
@prodigalatheist@prodigalatheistJan 24, 2017161 views
On Nazi Punching... Did you see the video of white nationalist/alt-right/nazi/[fill in your favourite description here] Richard Spencer (who says he isn't a Nazi) being punched by someone who appears to associate himself with the Black Bloc
In some ways worse than the punch apologists, are the puffed-up virtue-laden attacks on thinkers like you promoting rational rather than violent engagement. Its absurd to see those supposedly committed to the ideals of non-violence and peace berate someone for simply saying- hey, punching ideological opponents doesn't work and it is antithetical to this peace stuff our side has been spouting.

Yeesh. I needed to calm down this morning after reading ridiculous articles about Linda Sarsour as a role model for progressive values that berate those who pointed out "Wait, she said a country that executes rape victims 'puts us to shame' on women's equality because they incentivize motherhood and staying in the home with paid maternity leave!?" Anyway, thanks for the fresh air-
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